Kimmychu ([info]csiny_sl) wrote,
@ 2008-04-13 23:03:00
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Current mood: curious
Entry tags:spoiler_talk

Update on my speculations
Before I begin on new speculations for upcoming episodes, I have this to say to visitors to this LJ: Thank you for visiting and taking a look at my stories, art, spoiler discussions, etc. I appreciate it. What I don't appreciate, however, is when people comment just to throw accusations at my friends or pull the shipper martyrdom card. Hello, have you taken a good look at the image banner of this LJ lately?! If you don't like Danny/Flack or slash or anything you don't agree with here, then by all means, please go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to be here.

Now, on with the spoilers and new speculations!



In a previous post, I made speculations for how episode 4x16 would turn for the Danny/Rikki/Lindsay situation:

One way or another, Danny's going to be spending time with Rikki in his apartment and kisses her and gets intimate with her. This could happen either before or after Lindsay's monologue about being mad and in love and all that jazz. If it's before, there's a big chance the monologue scene will be at the end of the episode. Lindsay'll blab her monologue and we may see a quiet Danny who doesn't know what to say to her without hurting Lindsay's feelings. Then the episode ends with everyone wondering what Danny will say to her about things, thus making people wanna tune in next week. *lol* Either that, or before Danny is able to say anything, the scene is interrupted by someone else showing up.

Well, damn, who woulda thought all of it would come to pass? :D Granted, there are a few different details but WOOHOO! I am quite optimistic about next week's episode now.


To tell you the truth, the Danny/Rikki scene in episode 4x16 went far beyond my expectations. I initially hoped there would be no sex because I was concerned TPTB would end up cheapening the events in episodes 4x11 and 13. But when spoilers from Ausiello confirmed it, there was no turning back on that particular route.

To say I am pleased by how the D/R scene was handled is one hell of an understatement. We didn't just get intense physical intimacy, we got physical and emotional intimacy of a very deep and mature level. It was a fantastic double whammo that destroyed any chances of the sex between Danny and Rikki of being shallow and uninvolved.

(If you haven't seen the episode/scene, you can see a whole bunch of screencaps plus a rundown of the dialogue here. It's image-heavy so if you're on dial-up, you may have to wait a little while.)

If it had been simply a one night stand and they both regretted it in any way and if it had been Rikki who turned to Danny and not the other way around ... I can still see potential for Danny/Lindsay to happen in upcoming episodes (if it's confirmed that they never were in a relationship all this time). However, having watched the D/R scene and the incredible intimacy and care and affection Danny and Rikki have for each other, I'll even go as far as to say that there's almost zero chance of D/L ever recovering.

I've read other speculations saying that Danny will 'suddenly see the error of his ways and go grovelling at Lindsay's feet' or that 'hearing Lindsay say she's fallen in love with him will make him realize he's in love with her too'. Again, having watched the D/R scene and seeing how much Danny yearns for Rikki to stay with him and how he constantly touches and caresses her with such gentleness ... I highly doubt he sees Rikki as an 'error', much less grovel at Lindsay's feet after the way Lindsay ranted on him about how Danny never went to her for support on her terms and that he's a jerk for merely turning down her offer of lunch.

In fact, if [info]faylinn_drake's speculation for the upcoming episode next week comes to pass, Danny will most likely realize Lindsay isn't the person he thought she was, after all. (Please refer to Carmine Giovinazzo's June 2007 interview with CSI Files for the exact quote.)

Here's the speculations for episode 4x17:

In episode 4x16, Lindsay blatantly ignored Danny at the labs before and after her monologue. This proves that she didn't get all huffy because of Rikki but simply because Danny didn't want to go out to lunch with her that day. And how could she even get upset about Rikki when she doesn't even know about it? People who are assuming Lindsay 'stood up' to Danny about Danny 'cheating' on her with Rikki are certainly mistaking fanon for canon. Please repeat after me: FANON IS NOT CANON. As of now, we still don't know what the relationship between Danny and Lindsay is. And I reiterate, Lindsay doesn't know about Rikki at all.

Lindsay continues to blatantly ignore Danny even after he approaches her at the labs and says, "Lindsay ... I'm sorry. We have to talk."

In episode 4x17, there's a very big chance TPTB will drag out the drama between Danny and Lindsay with Lindsay continuing her childish ignore-Danny-to-punish-him-for-not-leaning-on-her tactic. It would stall any discussion of the situation, and it fits well with the 'possible D/L moment' spoiler for this episode, that an inspector called Quinn will see some 'moment' between them that causes Lindsay to abandon her evidence.

Perhaps Danny approaches her in the labs again but to make a point, she walks away from him as well as the evidence she's processing. All it takes is a moment to do that. And since they're in the labs in full view of other people, Danny will probably attempt to talk to her some other time and leave.


Speculations for episode 4x18:

I don't see a positive resolution next week for D/L. In fact, I don't see a positive resolution even in episode 18, if the spoiler posted at TalkCSI forums is anything to go by.

Episode 18 is entitled Admissions, which is another reason why I think TPTB will just drag the drama from episode 17 into episode 18. The spoiler at TalkCSI forums claims that 'there will be a little tension between Danny and Lindsay over Rikki'. So yes, depending on how things go, by next episode or the one after next ... Lindsay will find out about Rikki. Whether or not Danny chooses to have a relationship with Rikki or not, that's something only time will tell. I have my fingers crossed that Danny will choose to be with Rikki, especially if TPTB really goes with the above speculation for episode 17. Lindsay acting bratty like that will only serve to cement the realization that Lindsay is not who Danny thought to be, much less his 'best friend' or 'someone to lean on'.

Dudes, that's Flack, hands down. *lol* ;> Episode 4x13, anyone?!


Speculations for episode 4x19:

Ah, yes, the 'date' at the basketball game.

I tell ya, having seen the D/R scene, I am confident enough to say the chances of this being a romantic, happy date between Danny and Lindsay is almost nil. The only, most remote way I can imagine it happening is if Rikki suddenly packs her bags and leaves before the episode itself and abandons Danny just like that. I can't see that happening at all. Her honesty with him and the way she was looking out more for him than herself, with her being so straightforward about their sex and their motives and hoping he'd push her away ... nope, it would be very out of left field for her to suddenly do that or for Danny to even accept it without being very upset and unhappy. It would mean yet another person abandoning him when he needs them. How much more can the poor guy take?

Still think the 'date' spoiler is a bust or the scene ends up with different characters instead. However, I can still see it as a friends only thing between Danny and Lindsay if their discussion in episode 18 about Rikki ends on an amicable and mature note. If that's the case, then them being at the game together is Danny's peace offering for unintentionally hurting Lindsay's feelings and wanting them to start over as friends. I hope this is so because it might mean we finally get to see Lindsay grow up and become more of a decent character. It would mean a clean slate for Danny and Lindsay too, and TPTB can start anew with Lindsay's character and give her storylines that no longer need to involve Danny.

The only spoiler I've heard so far for this episode is: Both Danny and Rikki are starting freshly.

Ambiguous, I know. :P

Heh, there have been some amusing speculations it could be Danny and Flack at the game. *lol* It's canon that Danny and Flack play hoops together on Saturdays (from the pilot episode!), which means they definitely enjoy the game and would know something about it. Heheheh, I'll be over the moon if this really happens. It's not as impossible as it sounds: the spoilers for episode 4x15 showed that in the bar scene, it should have been Flack and Mac, but in the final episode, it was Flack and Danny. ;>





Is it Wednesday yet? *lol*

P.S. I am finishing a sorta cracktastic D/F story, as well as the bottom!Flack sex-in-the-car PWP.



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[info]surfingangel
2008-04-13 03:40 pm UTC (link)
Can't wait for some new writing from you, hon!!! Your stuff is amazing!!

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 04:31 pm UTC (link)
Thank you! :D I hope you'll like the one-shots coming up soon.

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[info]miss_blue1
2008-04-13 04:22 pm UTC (link)
There are some good points you've made in your post. What got me thinking is that Lindsay was mad at Danny because he didn't lunch with her. Back in S3 when she stood him up at a restaurant and left him like a complete idiot, did Danny act all crazy and stupid and made funny faces and monologues and acted all cranky? Nope. Instead he offered to help her deal with her shit.

I haven't told you by now (shame on me) but I've read about 70% of the fanfiction posted over at ff.net and they are awesome! I think I've read it all in one day. (Some of them even twice). So, congrats for the new ones and I can't wait to read them.

(Also, being all new to this stuff do you know where I can get a D/F icon? :D I really need one and I have no idea how to make one myself)

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 04:39 pm UTC (link)
Hi there! Nice to see you here. :>

Quote:
Back in S3 when she stood him up at a restaurant and left him like a complete idiot, did Danny act all crazy and stupid and made funny faces and monologues and acted all cranky? Nope. Instead he offered to help her deal with her shit.


So true. It just makes Lindsay's treatment of him even worse, ya know? It's amazing how some people just brushed everything Danny did for her under the rug and are so selective about Lindsay's actions and behavior. And they call us being biased!

Quote:

I haven't told you by now (shame on me) but I've read about 70% of the fanfiction posted over at ff.net and they are awesome! I think I've read it all in one day. (Some of them even twice). So, congrats for the new ones and I can't wait to read them.


Aww, thanks for letting me know. :D I'm happy to hear you enjoyed them! I hope you will like the upcoming stories too.

As for the D/F icon, I believe there's a thread at Brokeback Crimelab showing a ton of D/F icons.

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[info]creedcascade
2008-04-13 04:38 pm UTC (link)
Danny is in self-destructive mode. I think the lad doeth protest too much... two ladies? Really Danny. Just give into your love of the Flackman!

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 04:40 pm UTC (link)
*LOL* I like the way you think!

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[info]talulababy
2008-04-13 04:47 pm UTC (link)
I don't know where to start. Okay..I don't see a good outcome for D/L either. If the man doesn't even realized he's in a relationship with you while you kinda think you were, that's a f**k up. And Danny is not a kind of guy who'd jump into a relationship b/c of guilt. Will he feel sorry for her? Yes he will. His look in the monologue scene told it all (and that's the genius of Carmine). He was surprise, upset and feel guilty but I definitely don't see any love in there.

We didn't just get intense physical intimacy, we got physical and emotional intimacy of a very deep and mature level.

There's so much caring in the way he touched and hold Rikki while the pool scene with Lindsey screamed 'one night stand' for me. For a thousand times if the man cares for you, he'll make love to you on his bed not on a pool table (which he got rid of later).

there's a very big chance TPTB will drag out the drama between Danny and Lindsay with Lindsay continuing her childish ignore-Danny-to-punish-him-for-not-leaning-on-her tactic.

Should she be a professional and capable CSI whom Mac recruited into his team? I don't get it. She's self-center, childish and now unprofessional? And they wonder why we don't like her. *snort*

One thing to confirm my believe that D/L will be over is the spoiler of the scene between Lindsey and Hawkes in epi#20 (another unprofessional act). I just hope that the writers would not give Hills some lines to encourage her more. I said it once and I'll say it again. Poor guy deserves better than that!

Sorry for sounding like a ranting here, Kimmy. Hope this all make sense to you. ;)





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[info]talulababy
2008-04-13 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Oh and the bottom!Flack sex-in-the-car .

About time! XD

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 05:02 pm UTC (link)
Quote:
And Danny is not a kind of guy who'd jump into a relationship b/c of guilt.


Ya know, that's an interesting point. It brings me back to the Danny/Rikki scene. Rikki tells him that 'last night was just sex', and it certainly seems much more for his sake than for herself because she later tells him that it's not his fault Ruben died and straight out asks him 'can't he see she's only taking advantage of his guilt to not be alone'.

The whole time, she makes sure there are no lies or illusions between them about the situation. She knows getting into a relationship due to guilt is not a good thing, hence her wanting him to understand that Ruben's death isn't his fault. And who knows, maybe it's starting to sink into his head. Guess we'll see!

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Should she be a professional and capable CSI whom Mac recruited into his team? I don't get it. She's self-center, childish and now unprofessional? And they wonder why we don't like her. *snort*


Man, and here I thought I was the only one who remembered that! *lol* Yeah, what an irony it is now to see how different she is from the original 'image' Lindsay was supposed to have. It's a shame.

And nah, feel free to rant any time. I am always interested in reading other people's speculations and thoughts!

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[info]talulababy
2008-04-13 05:46 pm UTC (link)
Well, I think the thing between Danny and Rikki happened part of it because of his guilt but Danny implied it himself (if I remember correctly) that it's for his own benefit too. To forget the pain.

And right now "the thing" is not a relationship yet but who knows it can be a start. That's when "start off freshly" is really come to consideration. It can mean that they'd go separate ways or they put everything behind and starting again from the beginning. And yeah, I guess we'll see what will be soon.

And thanks for let me rant. *hehe*

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[info]razorbladegirl
2008-04-13 05:10 pm UTC (link)
So people are assuming Lindsey has every right to act the way she does because by some psychic powers unknown to us, she knows Danny was with Rikki? Yeah I'm the Queen England if that was true and own CSI: Miami. Their relationship (or whatever it is) is screwed up because they have horrible communication.

Plus Lindsey was pissed caues Danny claimed to have other things to do today (or person to do...hehe). But there is no way in hell she is mad at him for sleeping with Rikki unless she is a psycho with cameras in Danny's house. No wonder I stick to shippers in the CSI: and CSI:Miami because they are not as crazy. I think the GSR people would think some of the DLers have lost their minds with their reasonings to call Danny and Rikki's names when the person they are defending doesn't know what Danny did the night before and after he hung up on her.

Part of me knew putting Danny in a relationship with somebody on the show was a bad idea...

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 05:25 pm UTC (link)
*LOL* Oh, there are some DL shippers who definitely think that, and worse. I believe Danny is now downgraded even further to 'cheating asshole scumbag', as far as I know.

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Their relationship (or whatever it is) is screwed up because they have horrible communication.


Amen.

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No wonder I stick to shippers in the CSI: and CSI:Miami because they are not as crazy.


Heheh, having been a moderator of Shipper Hell, I have noticed shippers from the other two CSI shows can get rather wanky too. But I gotta agree on the wank coming from the CSI:NY D/L side being more crazy!

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[info]razorbladegirl
2008-04-13 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Plain and simple. It is not a healthy relationship at all because we never see them talk personally outside of the lab nor do we see them together outside of the lab. Everything they do is confine to the lab. Unless there something as going on, I don't see it as the ZOMG greatest relationship in the world. GSR was an ACTUAL relationship (maybe the writers should have taken note from there it make D/L more beliveable).

I know the wank in CSI: can get out of control but I rarely see any wank in the CSI: Miami relm. Maybe they're looking at CSI: and CSI: NY going "We have Horatio. What the fuck else can we do?" LOL.

Oh yeah, you can't call Danny a cheating asshole scumbag because the Lindsey doesn't know about Rikki. Lindsey not knowing about Rikki = Danny is not asshole for doing it to Lindsey. Plus if he was in a relationship, I think Rikki would have controlled herself.

I'm sticking with my Nick/Greg. They're nice. LOL

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 05:42 pm UTC (link)
What a coincidence you'd mention Nick/Greg. I had a dream last night Nick and Greg were frolicking in a swimming pool during the night. It was completely out of the blue but hot. *lol*

Quote:
GSR was an ACTUAL relationship (maybe the writers should have taken note from there it make D/L more beliveable).


I admit it, I laughed my head off when I first heard GSr was canon. However, after I saw scenes of it, I thought it was kinda sweet and believable. Although Grissom's love letter to Sara still made me laugh because it was so corny.

The issue with D/L being believable is, well, Anna Belknap's limited acting ability. The writers can write all the amazing stuff they want for Lindsay or for D/L ... but as long as Belknap is incapable of emoting, it's useless and wasted.

Quote:
Plus if he was in a relationship, I think Rikki would have controlled herself.


Yes! And I can't see Danny not telling Rikki he had a girlfriend if that was so. Imagine what Rikki would feel about him if that was the case and he had sex with her anyway. And lied to her. That would mean Danny is the one taking advantage of Rikki, not the other way around like Rikki claims.

Ah, well. Guess we'll know soon!

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[info]razorbladegirl
2008-04-13 05:47 pm UTC (link)
Come to the Nick/Greg fandom! We don't bite or act insane! I have a private N/G sl and it's so wonderful *sighs*

Even though the idea of Grissom and Sara being together weirded me out, I actually felt like it was believable. Dorks in love until Sara left and then I was left dumbfounded.

Danny has many girlfriend and well he may seem irriated by a few (Cindy from the godawful blant ad-episode for Coldplay), never once did he seem like he would cheat on somebody. And clearly if Danny slept with Rikki, it could be... he doesn't view their relationship the same way as Lindsey.

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-14 02:48 am UTC (link)
Do you mean at TalkCSI? Or is there an LJ community for it? :> I don't mind checking it out if there is!

Quote:
Danny has many girlfriend and well he may seem irriated by a few (Cindy from the godawful blant ad-episode for Coldplay), never once did he seem like he would cheat on somebody. And clearly if Danny slept with Rikki, it could be... he doesn't view their relationship the same way as Lindsey.


Hahahah, oh, season one, that season no rabid DL shipper wants to acknowledge simply because Lindsay didn't exist to ... 'make Danny a better man'. *rofl*

The last line? Agreed, totally.

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[info]miss_blue1
2008-04-13 05:18 pm UTC (link)
It amazes me that people started questioning the fact that Rikki wasn't convicted for stealing Danny's gun. (you should check in at Talk. A D/L fan really pissed me off with the smugness of the comment. I never thought that I could get pissed by them, but I was wrong).

Were are talking about an end to D/L when there wasn't even a start. I have seen no proof of any romance between them. Snow Day wasn't romance. Alcohol plus sex don't add up love. Another thing that raises a very big question mark from me is that any D/L fan out there was very excited that Danny loves Moontana, but not the other way around. Interesting...

This whole thing that started since Lindsay's day 1 could not have a good ending. Maybe Danny tells her about Rikki and the the whole D/L retardedness will finally end, because it has gone so out of control if you ask me.

And as creedcascade said: Danny should put an end to this insane situation and realize the Flackie boy is the one for him!

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-13 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Hahahahahah! Oh yes, I've read the posts you're talking about. Bitter, desperate and reaching doesn't begin to describe them.

The problem right now is that some people are confusing fanon with canon AND assuming that simply because they believe something is so, it gives them the right to override other people's opinion that don't follow theirs. All that tells me is how insecure and unhealthily obsessed they are about things.

Quote:
Another thing that raises a very big question mark from me is that any D/L fan out there was very excited that Danny loves Moontana, but not the other way around. Interesting...


Heh. Look up something called self-insertion. ;>

One way or another, Lindsay will definitely find out about Rikki. Just a question of whether it's in episode 17 or 18.

And yes. Flackie has always been for Danny thick and thin, and he always will be.

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[info]faylinn_drake
2008-04-13 06:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm playing the 'wait and see' game with all of this, but the fans are a special brand of crazy.

There are very few ways the DL fans could be appeased in the coming episodes without making Danny and/or Lindsay look completely ridiculous. Of course, I don't think the fans would care as long as they are appeased. *snort*

I wonder if it makes them feel dirty when they acknowledge that they basically want DL back no matter how much they whine and no matter what they say?

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-14 02:52 am UTC (link)
I knows. ;P But you know me, I love to speculate and stir madness up.

Quote:
There are very few ways the DL fans could be appeased in the coming episodes without making Danny and/or Lindsay look completely ridiculous. Of course, I don't think the fans would care as long as they are appeased. *snort*


True dat. TPTB can't please everyone, so there's bound to be at least one group of viewers who'll be upset (well, technically they already are *lol*). Come to think of it, I doubt TPTB's top priority is to 'please the fans' anyway. What they care about first and foremost are ratings. Ratings = kachingkaching. So if ratings suck = no kachingkaching = don't matter shit if some fans like it or not.

Quote:
I wonder if it makes them feel dirty when they acknowledge that they basically want DL back no matter how much they whine and no matter what they say?


Well, I do have something to say about that but it'll surely start wank. *rofl*

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[info]laminy
2008-04-13 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Oh my god, I cannot believe that people are speculating that Danny will go groveling back to Lindsay. Oh wait, yes I can, those are the crazy fans. No way in hell that that would ever happen. He will probably realize that Lindsay is not that great or nice of a person and just cut off everything with her, any friendship included.

I'm getting the 'Lindsay shows up at Danny's apartment and Rikki answers it half-naked' feeling, I have to say. And if it was a Flack and Danny date, that would just make my day.

And I think that you know how excited I am we all are for the bottom!Flack sex-in-the-car PWP, haha. And the sorta cracktastic one too, of course.

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-14 02:55 am UTC (link)
Oh yeah, there definitely are. He's kinda like a lapdog to them, ya know? Just a piece of meat who obeys their every command - uh, I mean, Lindsay's every command. :P

Quote:
I'm getting the 'Lindsay shows up at Danny's apartment and Rikki answers it half-naked' feeling, I have to say. And if it was a Flack and Danny date, that would just make my day.


Wowzas! I'll be amazed if the first one happens. Jacqueline Pinol isn't on the cast list at least till episode 20 so I don't think she'll appear again. Unless TPTB deliberately hid her name. *shrug*

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[info]matalinolukaret
2008-04-13 10:40 pm UTC (link)
Yay speculations! ♥

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[info]csiny_sl
2008-04-14 02:55 am UTC (link)
Yay! ;>

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[info]lady529
2008-04-14 09:19 am UTC (link)
Can't believe people still mix fanon with canon..

The Lady 529

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[info]bambiblake007
2008-04-15 12:45 am UTC (link)
hey, kimmy, i've been reading over your journal for quite a while now & i've always wanted to comment on stuff you post, but i didn't have a lj account, til now.

i've been talking to faylinn for a lil while now over at her journal cos i enjoy her posts as well, you guys totally rock on all things csi:ny related. i love to read what ya'll have to say about stuff. :)

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